Crown Assembly

Maceo Raines looks considerably more serious in photographs than he is in conversation.

Give him a few minutes and the jokes start slipping through. Ask him something personal and he’ll probably pause before answering. Ask him something too polished and he may stop himself halfway through because, in his words, he’s “trying not to give the church answer.”

That combination feels appropriate for an artist whose music lives between worlds.

Maceo is unmistakably a gospel artist, but the records surrounding him don’t always behave like gospel records are expected to behave. There’s R&B in the DNA. Hip-hop. Choir music. Soul. Heavy drums. Quiet reflection. Humor. Questions that don’t always resolve themselves neatly before the song ends.

On October 16, Crown Assembly will release Crown Assembly Presents: Get Your Life Right, Maceo’s new project with Voices of Grace.

Ahead of the release, we sat down with him to talk about how he got here, what Crown Assembly changed for him, why some of his hardest lessons had nothing to do with music, and the song on the album that hits him differently every time he hears it.

Inside the Crown: Let’s start with the title. Are you telling people to get their life right?

Maceo Raines: Absolutely not.

[Laughs.]

That would require me to have mine right first.

I think that’s what I like about the title. Depending on who says it and how they say it, “get your life right” can mean ten different things.

It can be encouragement. It can be judgment. It can be somebody joking with you. It can be you looking in the mirror knowing you need to make some changes.

I’ve been on all sides of that sentence.

Inside the Crown: So where are you right now?

Maceo: Better than I was.

Not where I’m going.

I’m comfortable saying both now.

There was a time when I thought being a person of faith meant I was supposed to have a clean answer for everything. And I definitely don’t.

Sometimes I know exactly what I believe.

Sometimes I’m like, “God, I have no idea what You’re doing right now.”

I don’t think one cancels out the other anymore.

Inside the Crown: Were you always comfortable admitting that?

Maceo: No.

Not at all.

I think when people see you as the calm person, the grounded person, you start feeling responsible for maintaining that image.

Somebody calls you when their life is falling apart because you usually know what to say.

Then you hang up and you’re sitting there like, “Man, somebody call me now.”

[Laughs.]

That was a real lesson for me.

Being dependable doesn’t mean you never need anybody.

Inside the Crown: Is that part of your journey into the music you make now?

Maceo: A big part.

I spent some time thinking gospel music had to show the finished version of you.

The testimony after everything worked out.

The praise after the door opened.

And obviously I love that music. We need that music.

But what about Tuesday?

Inside the Crown: Tuesday?

Maceo: Tuesday when nothing has worked out yet.

[Laughs.]

Sunday you had everybody around you. Tuesday you’re sitting in the car by yourself trying to figure out what to do next.

What does faith sound like then?

That question changed a lot for me.

Inside the Crown: Did you ever pull away from gospel music because of that?

Maceo: Not from God.

But musically? Yeah, there were periods where I was listening to way more R&B and rap.

Because those records were talking about the mess.

Relationships. Ego. Loneliness. Pride. Money. Bad decisions. Wanting something you know probably isn't good for you.

And I'm thinking, why does some of this feel closer to the conversations people are actually having every day?

Eventually I stopped seeing that as competition.

I started asking what happens if I bring that honesty into what I do.

Inside the Crown: Was there resistance in your own head?

Maceo: More than anywhere else.

“This beat is too hard.”

“This feels too much like R&B.”

“You can't rap like that.”

Who said?

At some point I realized I was rejecting songs before anybody else had the opportunity to.

That's a terrible way to create.

Inside the Crown: Is that what changed when Crown Assembly came into the picture?

Maceo: Definitely.

Inside the Crown: How did that relationship even start?

Maceo: Very uncinematic.

[Laughs.]

Brandon and Curtis heard some rough music I had been working on. It came through people in the creative circle, one person passed something to another person, and eventually Brandon reached out.

There wasn't some giant audition.

No spotlight.

No judges turning chairs around.

Inside the Crown: What did he say?

Maceo: The thing I remember was that he didn't start with, “We need a gospel artist.”

It was closer to, “What are you actually trying to make?”

That's a different conversation.

Because one question is about filling a slot.

The other one is about figuring out who you are.

Inside the Crown: What was your first impression of Brandon?

Maceo: He asks too many questions.

You can tell him I said that.

[Laughs.]

But later I understood why.

B will hear something you said casually and remember it three conversations later.

You're talking about a song and he'll be like, “Remember when you said…”

No.

I do not.

[Laughs.]

But he does.

And usually he's thinking beyond just whether the song sounds good.

It's, “Who is this for? What does this say about you? What's the world around it?”

That pushed me creatively.

Inside the Crown: And Curtis?

Maceo: Curtis knows when to leave something alone.

That's a gift too.

Brandon might hear an idea and immediately see five other things it could become.

Curtis might listen and say, “Yeah. But the song is good right now.”

You need both people.

One keeps asking what else is possible.

The other makes sure you don't decorate the house until you can't find the front door.

Inside the Crown: When did Crown Assembly start feeling like home instead of just somewhere you were making music?

Maceo: I brought in something I thought was going to be too far outside what people expected from me.

I was prepared for that conversation.

And instead, everybody started talking about how to push it further.

I remember thinking, okay.

Y'all actually mean this.

Because everybody says they don't like boxes until you show up with something that doesn't fit one.

Inside the Crown: How would you describe your relationship with the rest of the Assembly?

Maceo: Dysfunctional.

Put that as the headline.

[Laughs.]

Nah, it's good.

We're just very different people.

Tavian might be the calmest person in the room. He’ll sit back and watch everything, then say one thing and somehow that's the thing everybody remembers.

Zaire is almost the exact opposite.

Inside the Crown: Meaning?

Maceo: You will never wonder what Zaire thinks.

[Laughs.]

Ever.

But I like that about him. There's no mystery.

Janiyah is sharp. She catches everything. She’ll say something real smooth and two seconds later you realize she just cooked somebody.

Nahla doesn't make you wait the two seconds.

She'll just tell you.

Inside the Crown: Who gives the harshest feedback?

Maceo: Nahla.

Easy.

Because she'll say something doesn't sound real.

Not bad.

Real.

That's worse.

If somebody says the mix is bad, we can fix the mix.

If Nahla looks at you and says, “I don't believe you”?

Now you have a problem.

Inside the Crown: Do their styles affect your music?

Maceo: All the time.

That's the point of being around people who don't make the same music you make.

I hear how Tavian leaves space and think maybe I don't have to fill every second.

Zaire will attack something differently and make me think about my delivery.

Janiyah hears emotional details.

Nahla has a radar for anything that feels forced.

You start borrowing perspective without borrowing identity.

I don't need to sound like them.

They don't need to sound like me.

Inside the Crown: Let's talk about Voices of Grace. When did they become more than background vocals?

Maceo: Pretty early in this project.

At first I thought about singers the normal way.

Bring people in when we need them. Stack the section. Keep moving.

But the more we worked, the more I realized the voices were becoming part of the identity of the music.

There's something different about hearing a group of people breathe together and push the same phrase.

One voice can tell you something.

A room of voices can make you feel surrounded by it.

That's powerful.

Inside the Crown: Why the name Voices of Grace?

Maceo: Because grace means more to me now than it did when I was younger.

Not because I understand it better intellectually.

I've just needed more of it.

I've needed grace from God.

I've needed grace from people.

I've had to learn to give myself some.

And I've had to give it to people when I didn't feel like they deserved it.

That's when grace stops being a nice church word.

Inside the Crown: What have you needed grace for?

Maceo: Whew.

[Pauses.]

Being wrong while still being convinced I was right.

That's definitely one.

Being hard on other people because I was already hard on myself.

Expecting people to somehow know I needed help after I told everybody I was fine.

Holding on to things longer than I should.

Knowing better and still doing the dumb thing.

I wish I had a more impressive answer.

Inside the Crown: That's probably why it's a good answer.

Maceo: Unfortunately.

[Laughs.]

Inside the Crown: Let's get into the actual album. Favorite song.

Maceo: You can't ask that.

Inside the Crown: I just did.

Maceo: Right now?

Inside the Crown: Right now.

Maceo: “Meet Me.”

Inside the Crown: Why?

Maceo: Because I understand that song.

Sometimes you don't have enough energy for a transformation speech.

You're not saying, “I'm about to become the best version of myself.”

You're saying, “God, meet me right here because this is what I have today.”

That does something to me.

We're always talking about getting ourselves together first.

Fix this.

Stop that.

Become this.

Then come back.

Sometimes you need God before you finish cleaning the room.

Inside the Crown: Is that the most fun song on the album?

Maceo: Absolutely not.

[Laughs.]

Inside the Crown: I already know.

Maceo: “God Gave Me Bars.”

Easy.

That one is fun.

Inside the Crown: That title is going to irritate somebody.

Maceo: Somebody was irritated before we made it.

We'll be okay.

[Laughs.]

But seriously, why is writing treated differently from every other gift?

Somebody can say, “God gave me this voice.”

Fine.

“God gave me the ability to play.”

Fine.

You say, “God gave me bars,” and suddenly we need a meeting?

Words are a gift too.

Use them.

Inside the Crown: Then you have something like “As We Seek Your Kingdom” on the same album.

Maceo: Exactly.

That makes sense to me.

People aren't one thing all day.

My relationship with God isn't one emotion.

Sometimes there's celebration.

Sometimes reflection.

Sometimes I need reassurance.

Sometimes I'm asking questions.

Sometimes I want the drums to hit.

Why would all of that suddenly disappear because the album is gospel?

Inside the Crown: Which song surprised you the most emotionally?

Maceo: “One More Day.”

That one got heavier as we worked on it.

Gratitude sounds simple until you really sit with what you're grateful for.

“One more day” sounds basic.

Then you get older and realize it isn't.

That record can sneak up on me.

Inside the Crown: What about “Same God Different Sound”?

Maceo: That's probably the clearest statement of what I'm doing.

Not just me either.

Crown Assembly in general.

The sound can move.

The center doesn't have to.

I don't need every song to prove it belongs beside the song before it.

I need every song to feel honest coming from the person making it.

Inside the Crown: You’ve also got familiar gospel material throughout the project. Is there more pressure when you're touching songs and ideas people already have a relationship with?

Maceo: Definitely.

Because people already have memories attached to them.

You're not starting from zero.

But I don't want to recreate somebody else's moment.

Respect what came before you, absolutely.

Then ask what it sounds like coming through you.

Otherwise we're doing karaoke with a bigger budget.

[Laughs.]

Inside the Crown: Why close with “Eye on the Sparrow”?

Maceo: Because after everything else, I wanted to end somewhere simple.

You're seen.

You're cared for.

Keep going.

I don't think the album needed some giant final speech where I tell everybody what they learned.

I don't even like when movies do that.

Inside the Crown: The opening of this album is… unusual.

Maceo: That's all we're saying.

Inside the Crown: That's it?

Maceo: Yep.

Inside the Crown: You don't want to explain it?

Maceo: Absolutely not.

I want people to press play and experience whatever that first reaction is.

Confusion is allowed.

[Laughs.]

Just don't skip it.

That's the only instruction.

Inside the Crown: So there is a reason for it?

Maceo: Next question.

Inside the Crown: Fair enough.

Are you nervous about October 16?

Maceo: Yes.

Very.

Inside the Crown: You didn't even hesitate.

Maceo: Why lie?

You work on something privately for all this time and eventually you have to let strangers into it.

That's weird.

Somebody is going to love it.

Somebody is going to hate something I love.

Some gospel listeners might think we went too far.

Some people who don't normally listen to gospel might see the word gospel and never press play.

Somebody's auntie is definitely going to send me a message.

Inside the Crown: What's the auntie message going to say?

Maceo: “Baby, I love what you're doing, but…”

Once you see but, you know you got eleven paragraphs coming.

[Laughs.]

I'm ready.

Inside the Crown: What does success look like for this project?

Maceo: I want people to listen.

Obviously.

I want it to grow. I want the records to travel. I'm not going to sit here and pretend numbers mean absolutely nothing because that's the artistic answer you're supposed to give.

But deeper than that?

I want somebody to hear themselves.

If you're sitting somewhere thinking you've messed up too much, waited too long, drifted too far, or you're just tired…

I want something on this record to remind you that your story isn't finished.

That's enough reason for me to make it.

Inside the Crown: Do you feel like your story is still being written?

Maceo: Absolutely.

I think that's why this project works.

I'm not standing at the finish line yelling instructions backward.

I'm in it too.

Maybe I'm ahead of you in one thing.

You're probably ahead of me in something else.

We're moving.

That's different from pretending we've arrived.

Inside the Crown: What do you think Brandon and Curtis saw when they first heard you?

Maceo: You'd have to ask them.

Inside the Crown: I'm asking you.

Maceo: See, that's dirty.

[Laughs, then pauses.]

Maybe somebody who genuinely believed what he was singing without pretending that belief made him perfect.

And I think they heard that I could move musically without becoming somebody else.

At least I hope that's what they heard.

Maybe Brandon just liked the beard.

Inside the Crown: We'll ask him.

Maceo: Don't.

[Laughs.]

Inside the Crown: Last one. Somebody discovers Maceo Raines for the first time on October 16. What do you want them to know before they hit play?

Maceo: Honestly?

Nothing.

Don't read a review first.

Don't ask somebody what the best song is.

Don't jump around because you saw one title you liked.

Start at the beginning.

Let it be weird when it's weird.

Let it be heavy when it's heavy.

Laugh if something is funny.

If something hits a nerve, sit with that too.

And when it's over, I don't expect you to have your life right.

I don't.

Hopefully you're just pointed somewhere better.